Abuse of byways with TRO's on

[$$ca$h$$]

Whilst out today met a couple of enduro guys, who were not familar with the area they asked for some directions and I told them where they wanted to go they couldnt as there was TRO's on the lanes, there answer was they didnt care about them coz they didnt come from around here !!!!!, people like this get the trail riders a shite name, no Im not perfect as I have been done by the rozzers many of times for speeding and even lost my license through it driving a car, however I would like the byways to remain open for the users that do give a frug, rant over !!!!

[Big Jim]

Could have been worse, they could have beat you up & thrown you in a muddy puddle, you got off lightly :P

[pux]

This will only get worse as Wiltshire if finding out!! the more lanes TRO are pushing people into other counties!! also some of these so called TRO's that are being placed are being abused by the people that wanted them there!!!

[secret solo]

I think the damage caused by a 4x4 vehicle to a byway is far more rantable that the odd solo doing restricted/tro,d byways.

[denviks]

I think the damage caused by a 4x4 vehicle to a byway is far more rantable that the odd solo doing restricted/tro,d byways.

:frusty:.... i dont think that has any relavance ...its ****s on bikes being talked about :rofl:


a TRo is a TRO ..... its put inplace for ALL users to obey not just the ones who can be bothered

[secret solo]

Of course it has relevance as its the trashing of the surface by heavy vehicles that cause the tro,s in the first place !
Byways that have only allowed two wheel use for many years are still overall in good condition but one heavy session from 4x4,s and they are wrecked.
5 ways in meon valley is a very good example, very rutty but been like it for more years than i care to remember.
One night a group of illegal 4x4ers got in and devastated the place.. did more damage than 15 years of solos !

[denviks]

but are we not talking about someone using a lane with a motorised vehicle that should NOT be there..... no mater how many wheels it has.........?

and yes i drive a land rover to :rofl:

[pux]

but are we not talking about someone using a lane with a motorised vehicle that should NOT be there..... no mater how many wheels it has.........?

and yes i drive a land rover to :rofl:Ah only one way we can solve this.............................................. .........

















































FIGHT:aikido:

[Deanobadgio]

The whole thing is a load of cobblers anyway cos us quadders cause the least damage of all, having the weight spread over four wheels rather than two... So I say ban it all, only quads allowed on green lanes! :p

[RED PRED]

Not strictly true Deano, 4 wide quad wheels do have a much larger footprint than two skinny wheels on a bike with much less weight, yes the load is spread over a wider area but the surface scuffing (wheelspinning/donuts etc) caused by the friction of a wide surface area could be worse, 4 wide knobblies is much worse than two narrower ones in a lot of instances .

[pux]

I don't really care any more to be honest as i have been doing off road for work and pleasure for near 11 years now. And no matter what you drive, ride walk blah blah your damned and if its fun your even more damned and i am completely fed up with debating this subject with people. We all do damage to lanes no matter what we do yes 4x4(heavy ones) do damage so do quads specially when stuck as most people will spin their wheels until their brain engages that they are stuck. And yes bikes do the least damage i will admit that one but i can safely say a lot of bikers do a go a lot more of piste than most other users as i have seen on numerous occasions. Quadders and bikers 90% time ride lanes far to quickly etc



But do you know what i say to all this just stop ******* whining and just go out and ride, walk, run, shag, have fun. "one life live it" as sooner or later there will be no where for us accept on a track and they are even trying to shut most of them.



That's me signing out i wait for incoming

[secret solo]

the incomming on this forum though pux is generally humerous with p*ss taking so no where near as bad...
If non of us debated topics that we have already covered then the forums would become a boring place !

[RED PRED]

How very true :amen:
You are correct too Martin, better to have a rutted byway than no byway I suppose :amen:
Another point is that if all byways were super smooth and not rutted then we would all ride far too fast and that would be bad wouldnt it LOL
Having said that, when I led the BHQTA trigger crash day ride, I came very close to a serious accident on 3 occasions, first a car pulled straight out of a driveway without looking, this was on a byway, second I met a horse on a 90 degree bend and third met some crazy bikers also on a 90 bend, because I was leading such a large group I was fortunately going slow, any faster then there would definitely have been casualties, sometimes you can ride and meet nothing, other times it is deadly .

[pux]

Well debate this, you all love a bit of man love grrrrrrrrrrr

[RED PRED]

At the risk of driving this thread off topic, I do enjoy a nice muddy byway now and again !

[El Bandit]

also some of these so called TRO's that are being placed are being abused by the people that wanted them there!!!

Please explain.

[pux]

Please explain.Up near where i live there a couple of TRO'S that have been placed, these were basically brought about by the farmer and few other cronies!! but if you look at the lane now with steel gate across and padlocked its still as bad as they use for the tractors in all weather!!

[El Bandit]

I think its the tractors that cause all the damage. They seem to have impunity to go anywhere regardless of the consequences. Lets face it some ruts are only safely traversed with a tractor. Its in no ones interest to let tracks get like that, except the people who want to keep the rest of us off.

Maybe Red Pred might enlighten us all on the last ride we ahd where an old women tried to make us turnaround on a track because it was closed.

It had a couple of plastic workmans barriers surrounding a water leak in the middle of the track. She tried to tell RP that it meant the track was closed. There was no other signage anywhere. Needless to say the old lady lost. It was purely a case of NIMBYism. Seems it was okay for her to drive to her home along the track but not for anyone else. (Anyone want to know where it was?)

In my village we have some old fogies who like walking. They walk all the local footpaths during the year and make sure no Farmers are abusing rights of access. Any abuse is reported to the council.

Maybe we could do something similar.

[pux]

These TRO'S are all a big con i have been to one local meeting years ago when the first started coming about and sat there in disbelief that there were more pro's for keeping it open and yet the still closed it all because a certain someone lived on that lane and a major influence in the council!!!. This is why i do not care to much any more. The only place i do get peed at is Salisbury plain when i see idiots on there ruining it for everyone else.

[secret solo]

A byway is in need of repair, the highway agency does not and cant afford to fix it, the easiest route is a tro, costs nothing and can go on for two years !

[El Bandit]

The face of the friendly countryside.

[RED PRED]

It was the byway near Headmore Farm in Fourmarks, the reason the fences were up was due to a hole caused by a water leak in the middle of the byway, I had to laugh, the old crone was letting off and I smiled and said "ok we will go to the end of the byway, turn round and go back where we came from " she fell for it - doh !!

[pux]

That's all well and good but these doo gooders can easily take your number plate and then report to the police with you possibly getting a sect 59 against you!!

[El Bandit]

Whats a section 59?

Must have had good eyesight to read RPs number plate.

Anyway she was plainly taking the mick. No other signs and definately no Council restrictions. As long as it was a legal route and I have no reason to believe it wasn't then we certainly did nothing wrong.

She was spoken to respectfully.

If it had been a grumpy old bloke he could have ended up mucky.

And I would have taken the bike down for a few nights to really annoy him.

[RED PRED]

That's all well and good but these doo gooders can easily take your number plate and then report to the police with you possibly getting a sect 59 against you!!

Isnt that for riding a restricted or TROd lane Pux ?

[pux]

Isnt that for riding a restricted or TROd lane Pux ?No not just rinding a TRO can be used in pretty much anyway the law see's fit. There was a lad on another forum in a 4x4 not doing anything but because he had his number plate and some stupid story against him he had a section 59 issued to him!! i will try and find the story for you.

[pux]

http://www.glass-uk.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=267&Itemid=492

http://www.trf.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=99

They can pretty much just dish them out as they see fit and if you get two then you can kiss your vehicle good bye.

I cant find the 4x4 one but the poor had done nothing wrong.

[RED PRED]

So the next time anyone is washing their quad, put a carrier bag around the number plate to keep it dirty, or throw a bit of mud on it at the first byway !

[pux]

So the next time anyone is washing their quad, put a carrier bag around the number plate to keep it dirty, or throw a bit of mud on it at the first byway !Yep your dead right Graham, basically any doo gooder can just ring the law and drop you in the shit for doing nothing!!

[El Bandit]

Heres the law

http://www.glass-uk.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=267&Itemid=492

[pux]

read my link above lol

[El Bandit]

It clearly states when 'not driving ona road' Isn't a BOAT a road?

Below was taken from the DVLA website.

Most of the provisions apply on all roads throughout Great Britain, although there are some exceptions. The definition of a road in England and Wales is ‘any highway and any other road to which the public has access and includes bridges over which a road passes’ (RTA 1988 sect 192(1)). In Scotland, there is a similar definition which is extended to include any way over which the public have a right of passage (R(S)A 1984 sect 151(1)).

So we need to have been driving carelessly on the bit of muck/road that we were on.

We weren't doing that.

Causing a nuisance is the bit where you can do it off the road. But we weren't off the road. Or were we. No wonder you need Lawyers. Clear as mud. That needs to go on the number plate pretty quick whilst Green Laning. Notice I didn't call it off roading.

[El Bandit]

Maybe we should all drive round at 10mph with red flags in front of us.

Time to get back on the Motor Bikes.

[secret solo]

A byway is an unsurfaced road, even surfaced some times. Since they are mostly in the countryside they can also carry the national speed limit?
Any rambler who stands in front of you is commiting a criminal offence of obstructing a public highway. If they stop you from going anywhere then thats illegal detention.
If they touch your number plate its time to shout "criminal damage" !
Dogs should be on a lead around a road so why do the tramplers allow their dogs to run free ??? lol.

[RED PRED]

Dogs should be on a lead around a road so why do the tramplers allow their dogs to run free ??? lol.

In the words of the great Warrior-"because they are ****s lol"

So keep your plates dirty chaps lol

[secret solo]

mines still dirty/unreadable from last ride out ;)
Although the front is lovely and clean cos of me new mudguards....

[pux]

A byway= a public highway thats why you need to be tax and insured if using a vehicle. So they can use a sect 59 against you for that purpose. If you type in section 59 in google you will see all manner of people getting done with it admittedly most are chav's but you will see that there are some very unjust issued 59's in amongst that. Where's are plastic policemen Timo he should know as a sect 59 any copper can issue.

[Demented]

I think the wording of the law has the word 'and' in between likely to cause distress and not being a road which is fairly absolute....you have to be somewhere that isn't a road AND likely to cause distress. So if you're on a BOAT or a white or an ORPA and not doing anything silly like pulling wheelies and have a standard pipe I would complain to the Desk Sergeant at the local nick. Advice is to always get collar number of any PC who cautions ye about it.
This stupid piece of legislation was brought in to comabat a very limited set of problems but has been siezed upon by the police with little consistency it appears. To my knowledge, there has been no successful precednet set fro its application to green laning.....I'm not sure of that htough.
That's my opinioin as the 'barrack room lawyer' but it is consistent with advice from other more experienced people.

[secret solo]

You can get a sec 59 for wheel spinning in a car park.. Its for anything that is considered antisocial behaviour with a motor vehicle/bike.

[Jeffers]

When i used to do quad MX at jamies (mid hant quad club) some of the events were run with solo races as well , and the solo riders allways used to complain that we dug the track up because we were power sliding on all the corners, so a quad will do more damage to the surface than a solo, but no where near as much as a 4x4 land rover or the like.

TRO"S I HATE THEM

[El Bandit]

And guess what TRO's have no restriction against Farmer Giles in his very expensive and very large tractor that causes more damage than anyone.

Get orf my land.

[pux]

And guess what TRO's have no restriction against Farmer Giles in his very expensive and very large tractor that causes more damage than anyone.

Get orf my land.Exactly there is a lane near me with a TRO and the farmer use's it all the time and its worse than ever before!!

[Jeffers]

Exactly there is a lane near me with a TRO and the farmer use's it all the time and its worse than ever before!!

I wonder how many lanes that have had TRO"S put on them have never been re-opened.

[pux]

I wonder how many lanes that have had TRO"S put on them have never been re-opened.I think there is a fair few as they just keep TRO them!! I am a bit out of the loop as when i had my Landy i used to keep up to date on most lanes in Wiltshire!

[two wheels short]

I know a lot of the closures the TRF fight are either TRO's that have been incorrectly enforced or extended.
The councils just seem to hope people don't notice or challenge them.

Not my idea of fun but happy to pay my Subs to help fund the pen pushers.

[El Bandit]

Last wekend on the Harrow Way north of Oakley I was quadding in the snow.

At one point I came across a Pheasent shoot. The Convoy on the Green Lane consisted of a large tractor with very large trailer attached carrying the beaters, Two 4 ton lorries (Ex Army) carrying the punters, a quad with a trailer for the poor shot game and a couple of 4 x 4s for good measure. How much damage does that lot cause.

And I bet they will never get banned.

Its quite often they shoot across public footpaths. In effect barring the public from them just due to there presence with guns. Not sure where that stands in law.

[two wheels short]

And when they've finished shooting they'll complain about the noise we make riding along a lane!!!

[$$ca$h$$]

well thats it, my local byways have TRO's on now, all fooked up by 4x4s 56 miles of it ffs :amen:

[RED PRED]

56 miles, where do you live with that many miles of byways ?

[El Bandit]

well thats it, my local byways have TRO's on now, all fooked up by 4x4s 56 miles of it ffs :amen:

Any indication as to how long they will be shut?

The trouble with TROs is they can be too ham fisted. When they want to ban heavy vehicles they ban 4 wheel vehicles. This has the effect of banning even the tiddlers like Quads. Sometimes motorbikes still have access. Not always but some time a bit of lee way is given.

What can be done about it though. There are so few By Ways that the few left do take a hammering.

I was considering amove away from On road riding on my 1250 Bandit because its just so easy to go too fast and subsequently lose your licence. The Quadding has been an exciting alternative but you have to wonder how long we will be able to continue our sport. A lot of people don't like motor vehicles in woods and quiet areas. The ramblers and land owners have a big voice.

[RED PRED]

A lot of people don't like motor vehicles in woods and quiet areas.

I can understand that, people are entitled to the peace of the countryside as much as we are entitled to ride the byways, most people I have come across have been friendly and seem to accept that vehicles are allowed on them, I still blame the 4x4s for most of the closures, I reckon all the byways will be closed inside the next 10 years, especially as the councils are reigning in their budgets and making staff redundant, enjoy while you can .

Nice avatar Nick - woof woof !

[$$ca$h$$]

56 miles, where do you live with that many miles of byways ?

its just below salisbury, it starts from a place called whitsbury down which ressembles a lake and what mud wrestling girls in thongs would like to be in, :rofl: up to Salisbury racecourse along to Shaftsbury quite an easy ride, come across tramplers, drop down to a ride called the Oxdrove which is quite muddy lots of water and ruts, and then choose a link byway down to rockborne then cranborne along a byway which the quad grounds out on through the slop and ruts then home, El-bandit and Paddy rode about 40 miles of it with me last year, its when the word ca nal became a filtered word :)

[$$ca$h$$]

Any indication as to how long they will be shut?

The trouble with TROs is they can be too ham fisted. When they want to ban heavy vehicles they ban 4 wheel vehicles. This has the effect of banning even the tiddlers like Quads. Sometimes motorbikes still have access. Not always but some time a bit of lee way is given.

What can be done about it though. There are so few By Ways that the few left do take a hammering.

I was considering amove away from On road riding on my 1250 Bandit because its just so easy to go too fast and subsequently lose your licence. The Quadding has been an exciting alternative but you have to wonder how long we will be able to continue our sport. A lot of people don't like motor vehicles in woods and quiet areas. The ramblers and land owners have a big voice.

nope, but the byways which I was on about at the start of the thread are still closed and have been for over 6mths and had a gate fixed in place now so it could be for a very long time :cc_hang:

[two wheels short]

Said it before but there is only one organisation fighting TRO's etc and thats the TRF...........£40 a year.

Last years poll showed two memebrs were in the TRF so thats less than 5% of this sites active members.

So more than 95% couldn't give a sh1t about the future of the lanes, well not enough to actually do anything about it.

10 years and the lanes won't just be closed, they'll be distant memories!!!

[RED PRED]

You are right Carl, the problem is that most people on here will probably only be quadding/laning for a short time, say 5 years max before they are bored with it, we have seen many members come and go on this site, its a mid life crisis kind of thing which is a stepping stone to the sedation of the golf course therefore people dont even consider joining the TRF, as you say they dont give a sh*t !
There are those who have motorsport in their blood like yourself but they are in the minority .
I will be surprised if I am still quadding in a couple of years time because of local governments getting rid of staff, missus and possible redanduncy, but I will definitely have another bike one day .

[El Bandit]

I think I will buy a bus when I get older. then I can drive around at full throttle without breaking the speed limit, cause massive road jams and generally make everyones life a misery. Save the council subsidising Stagecoach (Apt name for a bunch of cowboys) doing it.

It must be exciting all bus drivers drive the same.

[El Bandit]

In fact when I retire I want to be a Gypsy :cc_hang:

[secret solo]

A solution to the "criminal offence to use 3 wheels or more" signs would be to use weight limits instead..
there are a few trails where i can see that lots of atv use has leveled the track more rather than a deep rut in the centre from water errosion and bikes.

[El Bandit]

Thats common sense. Government doesn't do common sense.

[RED PRED]

A 500kg max weight would be ideal, it wont happen though, a width rule would also be good, that would keep the 4x4s out .

[Big Jim]

You are right Carl, the problem is that most people on here will probably only be quadding/laning for a short time, say 5 years max before they are bored with it, we have seen many members come and go on this site, its a mid life crisis kind of thing which is a stepping stone to the sedation of the golf course therefore people dont even consider joining the TRF, as you say they dont give a sh*t !
There are those who have motorsport in their blood like yourself but they are in the minority .
I will be surprised if I am still quadding in a couple of years time because of local governments getting rid of staff, missus and possible redanduncy, but I will definitely have another bike one day .

You are probably spot on with that G, I have been at it for 3 years now, been all over the country & there is only such more to do. Lanes close all the time, Toms Farm closed & I loved it there & all bar Slindon I am getting a little bored with the same old local offroad sites.

There is a fair few things I have on the list for this year, back to Drumclog in Scotland for a few days, another trip or two to Devon, back over to have a go at Binstead Swamp with you guys, Strata Florida & other lanes in Wales but who knows after that. Thats if I don't go bancrupt in the mean time!

Van tax & MOT out end of this month, wheel bearing gone, cambelt needs changing, needs a full service plus what ever else the robbing MOT folk fail it on, aint gonna be a cheap one... Work burning down & moving to the middle of nowhere doesn't help either, they have been nice enough to give me a pool car for now but that wont last forever.

Oh yeah, now I am rider of the year there is nothing else to aspire to !!! ha ha

[RED PRED]

Hi Jim, your dedication knows no bounds, you are the ultimate quadder mate, you are a truly devoted 4 wheel nutter !!

[Big Jim]

Hi Jim, your dedication knows no bounds, you are the ultimate quadder mate, you are a truly devoted 4 wheel nutter !!

My next hobby after quadding will be line dancing, I hope I put as much effort in to that!

"& the line dance mag line dancer of the year goes to Big Jim" ... ha ha !!

[two wheels short]

4x4 Lane Dancer to Line Dancer!:cheer2:

[RED PRED]

Hi Jim, you are the next John Robinson !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giyMKVD1QcI

[Jeffers]

Said it before but there is only one organisation fighting TRO's etc and thats the TRF...........£40 a year.

Last years poll showed two memebrs were in the TRF so thats less than 5% of this sites active members.

So more than 95% couldn't give a sh1t about the future of the lanes, well not enough to actually do anything about it.

10 years and the lanes won't just be closed, they'll be distant memories!!!

Hi carl,
As long as 10 years, i remember in 2004 i was riding my LTZ up on the quantocks and bumped into a guy on the trail who was a TRF member down there, He started saying things like (you know the councils are going to re-classify loads of the byways/rupps around the country because of the damage the 4x4 are doing and the moans from the ramblers) I said no way man, they will never do that, and now i have to eat my words, and allso start doing more racing, only to be able to ride good terain.

jeffers