QZ 450 info from Johnnyboy

[johnnyboy]

I have no idea about the 300s but the 450s with a few mods are a good solid preformer , me and trig have had a ball on the things , would I recomend one for a begginer???? yes I would but not with the standard gearing as first is unusable (way to low) and the things leap about rather a lot at the touch of the throttle, mine will show 90mph plus (on private roads) with the gearing we run now (cheers graham)but still does water lane ect with no clutch work. the front shocks need softer springs I took the easy way out with the grinder and welding set and changed the angle to a much more acute one the benifit from the 1/2 hour or so work is a much plusher 1" more travel front end plus I can put them back to firm in minutes for fast road use (wont lift the rears in the corners) . Paper air filter has to go. Standard brake pads wont last a ride on the rear in mud, the ones I get will last at least six months, Oh and a set of me old mate Stephan Everts own personal made for him only and definatly not for resale set of handle bars

[RED PRED]

Good info John, I moved this post to here for the obvious reason .
Any other golden nuggets you can give on the QZ 450 would be good for potential buyers .

[johnnyboy]

Yes here is a good money saving tip, do not repeat do not buy a DEP exhaust pipe for a QZ 450! all they do is make a ton of ungodly noise, no end of airbox mods and carb rejetting will get a ounce of extra horse power from the thing, the exhausts that we have on now make really good low down power all the way up to the rev limiter and are super stealthy (keeps the horses happy) and work well with my air box mods

[two wheels short]

Don't forget the highly technical reserve pipe mod John.

[johnnyboy]

forgot that one Carl thanks for reminding me:bangin:

[RED PRED]

So what butchery, er I mean mods did you do to the exhaust John ;) ?
I find it strange that the Predator engine (which apart from capacity is basically the same as yours)benefits greatly from exhaust and carb/filter etc mods and yours does not ?
When I sold mine I put the standard pipe back on and the difference was very noticeable .

[two wheels short]

Johns exhaust is like Triggers broom, four new downpipes and eleven different silencers!:crazy:



Ok, so just a couple of different tailpipes but thats not funny:hurt:

[RED PRED]

Which trigger ?
So John fancies himself as a bit of a Stan Stephens then ?

[two wheels short]

C'mon Graham, Trigger from "Only fools and Horses" thats where Trigger gets his name from!


Think John fancies himself as a bit of a Rachel Stephens!!

Or just fancies a bit of Rachel Stephens!

[RED PRED]

Or just fancies a bit of Rachel Stephens!

Dont we all eh !

C'mon Graham, Trigger from "Only fools and Horses" thats where Trigger gets his name from

Thats what I meant, which Trigger ?

[James]

:thumb_thisthreadisw

[johnnyboy]

Graham I didnt say the motors didnt benifit from the mods I have found a heap more power all I am saying is the DEP system is a load of pants it has bigger bore header pipes and if you fit bigger bore pipes you loose tourqe and gain top end, not so with the DEP it makes it flatter on the bottom and gives nothing on top, again I have to say it because its louder mosr people think its faster better ect , KTM make the most powerfull MX bikes the best power of all bikes made yet are the most stealthy, again proveing that noise dont make power

[RED PRED]

no end of airbox mods and carb rejetting will get a ounce of extra horse power from the thing

Sorry John, I must have read the above wrong and misunderstood ;)

I read an article by an expert tuner where he stated that for more low and mid range torque, larger bore and longer length headers are required .

[two wheels short]

Larger bore equals less low-mid range, and (normally) a gain at higher revs.

Longer headers would get some back but unless your riding a chop you generally dont have a lot of spare room as the front wheels get in the way. Yams new 450 with the reverse head on has the exhaust doing a loop between the shock and rear wheel.

[RED PRED]

I must have remembered it wrong Carl, it is possible to have longer headers by moving the collector further away ?

Yams new 450 with the reverse head on has the exhaust doing a loop between the shock and rear wheel.

Right where all the mud goes eh, sod cleaning that !!

[RED PRED]

I just had a look at my exhaust, the headers are a few mm bigger diameter than the Yam ones but the collector where the two headers meet is a good 150mm further back from the standard collector position so longer headers, I must say the low and mid range pull is deffo better than standard so they have obviously done their homework, the pipe from collector to silencer (LOL) is 10mm bigger diameter too .

[secret solo]

? Well maybe im just being awkward here but the 660,s have restrictive headers and aftermarket larger ones give all over better performance, not sure if this applies to 700,s BUT my main arguement is someone,mentioning no names, claims ktm make the most powerfull mx engines- not true ! Look up the power of the rxv 450, i do believe its the same as the husaberg 650 ! (according to various web sites) :fencing:

anyway,watch as many mx/enduro races as you like, its not the bike but the rider that wins usually since they all seem to be as good as each other (excluding bmw)

[RED PRED]

mentioning no names

Oh go on, name names !

We saw a very nice KTM bike out sunday, a 530cc he said, the price-over £6.5K !

[two wheels short]

Your standard pipes must have been pretty restrictive, but if you were to keep going bigger and bigger on the headers you'd soon find you'd lost all your bottom to mid range. Same with carbs too.

BMW did win two of the last three days of the WEC and The Romaniacs.

Aprillia 450 putting out 60bhp? Impressive but doubt they'll be winning any MX GP's

[two wheels short]

We saw a very nice KTM bike out sunday, a 530cc he said, the price-over £6.5K !


Sounds about right for a new 525, the new Bergs start at just under £7,000 on the road............. but they are in a class of their own. (me biased?)

[RED PRED]

They work out at £70 per KG which is cheap, you wont get a KG of green or black that cheaply :D

[two wheels short]

Better buzz too:84:

[RED PRED]

Regards the exhaust subject, there was a review in a yank quad mag where they thoroughly tested all the current (at the time, about two years ago) aftermarket systems on a 700 Raptor and the conclusion was that the 660 benefitted a lot more from exhaust mods than the 700 due to its carbs, the EFI is the main limiting factor on the 700, obviously there were gains on the 700 but not as much as the 660 .
I prefer carbs to EFI but have to take what I have got and make the most of it, carbs seem more understandable than silicon chips, is that an age thing ?

[two wheels short]

Think EFI is good for hassle free riding but if you want to tinker then you cant beat carbs.

I remember when i lusted after an XT660 the headers always looked far too small and in hindsight are very small compared to my Bergs and they are much smaller than the ones fitted to the Supermoto race bikes John and me saw at Bordon.

[RED PRED]

The EFI units do not allow a lot of adjustment of fuel mixtures due to the emissions parameters set by the makers hence the huge market for Power Commander and juice box type devices which over-ride the standard EFI chips .
With a carb you can simply change the jets/needles and tinker until you get the right setting, just seems more straight forward than pushing buttons on some digital device .

[El Bandit]

What sort of speed can the QZ 450s attain on the highway and what speed do they comfortably cruise at ?

And lastly what are the major improvements on the new 450 Sports.

[johnnyboy]

A quick one for andy a aprillia rxv is a twin cylinder!!!!! so no comparison and a 2010 kx450 make .22 more hp than a ktm but dosnt make as
good power. hp figures are a load of pants any one can make a engine make loads of it , dosnt make it ridable for the masses. yoy takes you choice buy a jap bike change the exhaust change the sprockets change the bars ect and you get closer to what comes stock no a ktm, As for the cruising speed on a QZ with the much needed gearing changes 70mph all day long at a sensible revs 90ish flat out

[Marineboy]

Someone I know that I do quad trips with has just fitted a DEP system to his new QZ450 Sport. You are right. It is full on noise all of the time !!

What mods : ie; alternative sports exhaust, gearing, airfilter etc.. can you recommend for him??

[RED PRED]

So is your after-market exhaust no louder than the standard one Marineboy ?

[El Bandit]

As for the cruising speed on a QZ with the much needed gearing changes 70mph all day long at a sensible revs 90ish flat out

Sounds cool

[RED PRED]

I think Johnnyboys speedo needs checking, as good as the QZ 450 is, it is a sleeved down Predator 500cc engine, the Predator would not do over 85mph unless some serious engine work had taken place, now the QZ 450 is NOT faster than a Predator so the QZ speedo must read well fast or Johnny needs an eye test .

[El Bandit]

I would still be happy with the lower speed. At least it shows what the machine might be capable and what league its in.

Just been speaking with a guy at work and he has just bought a Apache 320. He's not happy with it because it can't keep up with the flow of traffic. So I guess a 320 isn't really an option for me.

The QZ 450 Sport is looking a better option all the time. So far it seems to tick quite a few boxes.

Would like to see one in the flesh tho.

[RED PRED]

For the money they are good, they are very popular too .
You also have the benefit of a dealer within 10 miles of you which is a bonus .

[Raptorman]

You could buy Jonnyboys and he could buy this KTM

http://www.dirtbikebitz.com/enduro-bikes-quads-c-934.html?infoBox=0&osCsid=b6abe1beba661f8cab407984400bfd55

[El Bandit]

You could buy Jonnyboys and he could buy this KTM

http://www.dirtbikebitz.com/enduro-bikes-quads-c-934.html?infoBox=0&osCsid=b6abe1beba661f8cab407984400bfd55

Is that the brand new price ? £5000

Interesting.

[Raptorman]

I know the person selling this he used run his business on Hayling Island now moved to Devon, I take it you know that it is not road registered ?

[secret solo]

aprilia may not be winning many mx grand prix,s but have been doing very well elsewhere dominating the circuits in the world Supermoto championship, where Aprilia has won 5 world titles to date.
the pikes peak in usa (supposedly world famous? ) quote- the Aprilia SXV 5.5 once again proved to be unbeatable even by bigger engined machines from higher classes.
i looked at the rxv550 but most the reviews said it is too powerfull for green laning as its wanting to constantly rip your arms out of their sockets.
By all accounts the 450 aint far behind with a supposed 65hp.
If their chassis are so brilliant and engines so light and powerfull why aint they competing in mx ?
I loved my little rx125 with its 34hp all them years ago with all top notch parts as standard.
Yes i do know its a v-twin jonnyboy, the v-twin that many said would not work or couldnt be done.
why dont i get a 450? cos the poxy thing has a seat height of 998mm :( and i would look a bit *** riding around with a pair of steps ladders on the back :)

[RED PRED]

i would look a bit *** riding around with a pair of steps ladders on the back

True, maybe some Gary Glitter platform boots would be better ?

[two wheels short]

Secret,

Pretty sure John was on about KTM making the most powerful MX engines not SM, totally different kettle of fish redlining on mostly tarmac than trying to hook up on a MX track.
Pikes Peak!! Proper real world riding up a mountain to 4,500 metres!

Are you talking about Husaberg when you mention the chassis and lightweight powerful engine, and not racing MX? If you were then last year was the first year of the new engine (which isn't lightweight or super powerful but a revolutionary design that makes the whole bike feel lighter and easier to turn) and they only released enduro models, this year they have a cross country model and SM but no MXer so you'll just have to wait for them to add to there MX world titles.
If you read TBM you'll see the full line up and how good they think they are.

If you look at Aprillia i think you'll find they tried to do too much with a brand new model a few years ago and looked stupid so scaled it down and did better.......something about running before you walk!

[two wheels short]

Oh and have you looked at the Sherco T ride? Low seat height chassis with a Yam 250 engine.

[RED PRED]

Just think how big the bike section of this site would be if you posted the bike stuff in there ;):D
It would be good to have lots of bike info in there .

[Raptorman]

I did say that about 2 weeks ago to attract more punters

[johnnyboy]

I think Johnnyboys speedo needs checking, as good as the QZ 450 is, it is a sleeved down Predator 500cc engine, the Predator would not do over 85mph unless some serious engine work had taken place, now the QZ 450 is NOT faster than a Predator so the QZ speedo must read well fast or Johnny needs an eye test
Dearest Graham I couldnt argree with you more, but and the but is on another site someone running the same gearing GPSed his and came back with the same figures as me, in truth it was trig that pushed it to 91 I only got 90 and whos to say the rev limiter on a QZ is the same as a Predator, personaly I dont give a s**t as long as it will hold motor way speeds in comfort, mind you it was bloody funny blasting past all those cars in the outside lane some of the looks were to die for

[RED PRED]

Lol, well we cant have QZs being faster than Raptors can we, mine only does 75mph !!
I bet you had a few thumbs up from kids :)

[Raptorman]

Mine shows 84 mph on vapor speedo and as far as i know is correct

[RED PRED]

As Johnny rightly says, it does not really matter what the top speed is as long as cruising is comfortable .
For some reason 50 60mph feels quite fast on a quad anyway (off road) LOL

[secret solo]

Mine shows 84 mph on vapor speedo and as far as i know is correct

mine also shows 84 when im tucked in behind your slipstream !

[johnnyboy]

Dear Secret Solo
Just been reading your bit on the Aprillias, all very good but just to put my five eggs in they did race the GPs but with out much success the reason for this is the bike its self was developed purley as a super moto bike and as such has a 50/50 weight bias, what that means is if you put a set of scales under the front and back wheels they will read the same. most other MX /enduro bikes are 75/25 now what with all your years of racing experience in all forms of off road types surely you should off known this. the reason I know this is because the factory mecanics for the team told me, thats what happens if you go to watch/ride/participate in these events you learn what works and what dosnt. A life time of racing in all off road forms solo or side car plus building some bike frames/side car chassis exhausts all from scratch has believe it or not given me quite a vast amount of usefull knowledge that I try to help other with in there moments of despair but what I find when trying to help others someone finds a bit of info on the web and copys and pastes it while not even knowing if it even correct there upon leading some poor soles up the garden path, having ridden and raced just about every bike ever made I think my limited knowlege is pretty well sound and the people who I have built there bikes and engines are all very happy with there product and just to blow my own trumpet a little my last first place trophy was one at the tender age of 49 years old and yes I built and tuned the thing all myself then some twat stole it just to find oud he couldnt ride it couldnt sell it cos it was like no other. And yes I have raced with the likes of Graham Noyce, David Thorpe,Kurt Nicoll,Jem Whatley ect and all know me personaly as the saying goes been there done that and got the tee shirt :hug:

[Big Jim]

Dear Secret Solo
Just been reading your bit on the Aprillias, all very good but just to put my five eggs in they did race the GPs but with out much success the reason for this is the bike its self was developed purley as a super moto bike and as such has a 50/50 weight bias, what that means is if you put a set of scales under the front and back wheels they will read the same. most other MX /enduro bikes are 75/25 now what with all your years of racing experience in all forms of off road types surely you should off known this. the reason I know this is because the factory mecanics for the team told me, thats what happens if you go to watch/ride/participate in these events you learn what works and what dosnt. A life time of racing in all off road forms solo or side car plus building some bike frames/side car chassis exhausts all from scratch has believe it or not given me quite a vast amount of usefull knowledge that I try to help other with in there moments of despair but what I find when trying to help others someone finds a bit of info on the web and copys and pastes it while not even knowing if it even correct there upon leading some poor soles up the garden path, having ridden and raced just about every bike ever made I think my limited knowlege is pretty well sound and the people who I have built there bikes and engines are all very happy with there product and just to blow my own trumpet a little my last first place trophy was one at the tender age of 49 years old and yes I built and tuned the thing all myself then some twat stole it just to find oud he couldnt ride it couldnt sell it cos it was like no other. And yes I have raced with the likes of Graham Noyce, David Thorpe,Kurt Nicoll,Jem Whatley ect and all know me personaly as the saying goes been there done that and got the tee shirt :hug:

Thats one hell of a paragraph:kiss:

[James]

Dear Secret Solo
Just been reading your bit on the Aprillias, all very good but just to put my five eggs in they did race the GPs but with out much success the reason for this is the bike its self was developed purley as a super moto bike and as such has a 50/50 weight bias, what that means is if you put a set of scales under the front and back wheels they will read the same. most other MX /enduro bikes are 75/25 now what with all your years of racing experience in all forms of off road types surely you should off known this. the reason I know this is because the factory mecanics for the team told me, thats what happens if you go to watch/ride/participate in these events you learn what works and what dosnt. A life time of racing in all off road forms solo or side car plus building some bike frames/side car chassis exhausts all from scratch has believe it or not given me quite a vast amount of usefull knowledge that I try to help other with in there moments of despair but what I find when trying to help others someone finds a bit of info on the web and copys and pastes it while not even knowing if it even correct there upon leading some poor soles up the garden path, having ridden and raced just about every bike ever made I think my limited knowlege is pretty well sound and the people who I have built there bikes and engines are all very happy with there product and just to blow my own trumpet a little my last first place trophy was one at the tender age of 49 years old and yes I built and tuned the thing all myself then some twat stole it just to find oud he couldnt ride it couldnt sell it cos it was like no other. And yes I have raced with the likes of Graham Noyce, David Thorpe,Kurt Nicoll,Jem Whatley ect and all know me personaly as the saying goes been there done that and got the tee shirt :hug:


:amen::amen::kiss:

[two wheels short]

If anyones interested there are still four of those T shirts available, two in medium, a large and a double extra large:drum:

[RED PRED]

While these posts are very informative and I do not doubt Johnnyboys knowledge about bikes, this is a thread about QZ 450 quads so please, can we post future bike related stuff in the relevant section, I am not saying this because I am being a heavy moderator but because I love bikes and would like to see a really good bike section on this site :D
I find Johnnys posts very good but they should be in the right place .
I will move bike related posts into the bike section in future .

Thanks

[johnnyboy]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KTM-RACE-QUAD-505-2010_W0QQitemZ140359126942QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Mo torcycles?hash=item20ae0e4f9e



cop the price of this beast !!!! think I will buy two

[RED PRED]

Wow, lots of spelling mistakes !
Oh yes, nice quad :)

[secret solo]

very nice quad but 10k ????
you could buy one of these for 10k and im sure you would get more use out of it.

[johnnyboy]

Its madness I could buy 2 good second hand raptors ect for that amount of money and not have to worry about putting them on the road, there must be a ktm or two out there that has been put on the road, I dont really want to buy a raced quad KTM or other makes, wouldnt mind one thats done enduros but a MXer will have had a much harder life and you never know how the owners would off maintained the thing plus a KTM MXer is different, its much wider and uses WP shocks the enduro model uses ohlins and is not as wide (A arms and axel )

[RED PRED]

Or you could buy two and a half brand new QZ 450s for that money :clapping::D

[two wheels short]

That is verry verry expensive

[RED PRED]

You could buy a new Renegade for that much .